Curse

Winterclaw · Oct 21, 2010, 07:15 AM // 07:15

I'm writing this as a counter-argument to this thread from the land of sunshine, lollipops, and unicorns.

PvP in most or all of its forms, as it stands, needs to die. Burn it. With a charrzooka.

So how do I come to this inane but brilliant idea? Well let's look at PvP.

RA - it's filled with a bunch of RAgers, RAge quitters, syncers, and people who can't even bother to show up to a 4v4 match which somehow turns it into a 4v3 match.

CA - gimmick pvp where you have to figure out which classes are good that day, which ones to play, and have to get a group together. Would have been better if it was implemented earlier. This is the last form of pvp implemented before GW2 comes out.

HB - Nightfall pvp, so bad with red resigns and ladder manipulation it had to be removed.

FA - factions pvp, meh at best.

JQ - factions pvp, usually empty.

AB - Factions pvp. Random chaos with little strategy. If you can get a battle. Kurzicks are smart and have better things to do with their time which is why they never show up.

HA - mostly harmless elitist b******s. Move along.

GvG - Good while the koreans still bothered with it, been downhill ever since. Maybe when the country of the parent company and one of the largest groups of online players quit, maybe anet should have seen a red flag.

Holiday PvP - not bad at times. Unless you count RBR. RBR needs to be killed with a charrzooka... loaded with a kamakaze asura.

So before we even look at what I think is the biggest problem, let's get something which should be completely obvious out of the way. There are 7 active forms of PvP and one occasional.

If GW was the new kid on the block with a large active population this wouldn't be a problem. However the glory days of GW pvp are in the past. The golden age is over and most people are leaving the game one by one. Since PvP's core is a smaller group of the population and you need a bunch of people together before you can even start PvP, you've got a problem. When most active people are trying to focus on filling their HoM to 30 right now and pvp isn't needed for that, you've got a problem.

GW's heyday is behind it. Right now it's a 40 something woman trying to compete who knows there's a 17-year-old mega babe who's just about to become legal knocking on the door; she's got natural DDs. The once bountiful fields are fast becoming a dry and barren desert. Hairs are fast turning gray and wrinkles are appearing. And every older woman on the forum hates me now.

Setting aside from a little hate from the gyn-types, the biggest problem facing all pvp right now is it's too fragmented. Too many options competing for the attention of too few players, most of which aren't really into pvp to begin with and if they were they have better options. Like H/Hing shiny new titles so they can get some junk from that soon to be 18-year-old mega babe who just wants their $50.

How in the bloody world are you supposed to keep 7 different types of pvp formats fully populated in a time when GW is losing players?

So the most obvious solution to the most obvious problem is if you want PvP to survive in GW, the first thing you are going to have to do is purge some of the formats. That's probably the most important thing. You've got to have enough people in the remaining ones so they don't die out.

So which ones get the axe?

RA - It's random and chaotic. It can be bad. I hate some maps. As I mentioned above the people in it aren't the best at times. It's also a quick fix if you want to do something that contains PvP-like substance. So it has to stay.

CA - a gimmick arena.

TA - game wasn't balanced for it so it had to die.

FA - Factions PvP and as I don't have a guild so I don't care. Burn it. Should be remade as a pair of PvE challenge maps.

JQ - Factions PvP and as I don't have a guild so I don't care. Burn it. Should be remade as a pair of PvE challenge maps.

AB - Factions PvP and as I don't have a guild so I don't care. It's screwed up because one side if they are looking to get their I have many leather bound hookers title can get it faster in PvE. So there isn't even a shiny new title incentive for half the population. Nice call. Maybe it can stay because it is unique, but then again it's factions PvP.

Burn it.

As an aside, why didn't GW:EN have something like this? A pvp arena where you can get a lot of faction for a pve title real fast. People wonder why I think Anet is full of poop when they say they don't want to make GW2 grindy. Yet half of the "content" on the last "game" that anet made before GW2 is an epic grindfest. In order to get your shiny new titles you either need to grind areas or grind dungeons. Even worse is you have to grind those titles if you want something as simple as a weapon. Or armor. Because your plat is worthless if you don't go out and kill 2k krait first or try to drive raptors to extinction.

Anet, until I see proof to the contrary, you are full of poop for having 80 levels and saying you don't like grind. In fact, the mythbusters just tested a myth that completely relates to your assertions. And it wasn't pretty.

Moving on.

HA - Ah yes, the elitist b******s. I'm going to say more on this cesspool later, but it is the only 8v8 arena that you don't need a guild to participate in. So sadly it'll have to stay. Otherwise I'd burn it.

GvG - The closest thing to an actual titular guild wars, were 8 people out of a potential hundred can battle another 8 people on the same maps. Or seven fight seven because there's that whole stupid flag runner mechanic. Yes, the guild wars, were 7 people fight 7 others, or 3 people who split fight a bunch of NPCs for the pinnacle of all GW pvp.

It should stay, but I'm glad it's dying.

So where do that leave us? RA, HA, and GvG. In other words, despite many attempts to create new PvP, some of them failures, the only 3 worth keeping are 3 of the 4 original ones. So how would I sum up these 3 forms of pvp as the ones Anet should keep?

100% chance of doom.

RA is where you take 4 random people with different builds and skill levels and put them together. With little ability to properly communicate. Things can be interesting, but are also frustrating. This is also the lowest common denominator of GW PvP, so umm, yeah... it's bad. Unless you sync up, luck is more a factor than anything.

Next we have GvG. In order to do that you need 8 people, in your guild, on at the same time, who want to GvG, have vent/mumble, and are free to at the moment. And you need another guild who also fills those prerequisites. It worked before but GW is losing people so this is getting harder all the time to meet. Should you fill all that up, you then have to decide what builds everyone is running and who's doing what. From my own experiences sometimes it can be an hour or more from when someone says let's GvG until we can get everyone in the guild hall, on the right PC, with the right builds, and a plan, so we can try to look for a GvG match. If you are the typical gamer, half your playing time that night is already gone and you haven't even started.

I've GvGed before... Sort of. I had mixed experiences in it. Yet I'm glad it's dying. The premise isn't that great but it can be made to work. Yet having one dedicated flag runner and another 7 people either fighting the other side or waiting for VoD isn't always my idea of fun.

Lemming and I were having a discussion on this in IRC. He was talking about how DF took in a new player from XoO, put him on monk duty (a poop job for some people) made him babysit the GL (even worse) and then yelled at him when it moved off into the action and the GL died. Everyone else took the side of the big-time pvpers and told me that the monk was the problem with GvG... you've got a new guy and when he isn't the good little robot who does whatever he's told he's wrong and has too much ego. They said you should always listen to the person with the most experience.

I retorted by telling them GW Bush has more experience running the country than the rest of us so we should all listen to him on political matters.

They didn't like that very much.

Anyways...

I thought about it and I can't blame the guy who didn't do what he was told. If it was me, I'd want to let the GL go and get into the thick of it. GW is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. First people fast talk me into playing monk (I don't really mind monking in PvP). Then they tell me my job is to be semi-afk and babysit an NPC for 5 minutes while they are off PvPing.

Where's the fun in that? People like me play games to relax and have fun. Being told to wait back hoping they get rolled so I can join in the things (at which point its probably GG) isn't very fun.

So people were telling me the new person has to be a team player and all that poop. Really? Why would I want to play on team let's screw our monk over? I'm going to get back into this in a bit but different players have different goals, attitudes, and aspirations when they play a game. When you change the people playing on a team, its completion and chemistry can change. That means you are going to have to bend with the change.

Otherwise you are part of the cancer that is killing PvP.

Now we get to HA and the few elitist bleeps who play it. Setting the elitist and the bleeps aside, there's a more fundamental problem with HA. Let me throw in some rough quotes from IRC to illustrate.

Quote:

Most people run the same whateverway builds

I guess that is to be expected.

Quote:

In HoH we just wait around doing nothing for an hour before going to bed

Interesting.

Quote:

Basically the underworld is the same two teams playing each other and one of them skips to HoH

Ok, makes sense.

Quote:

In HA you've got 12 people standing around and one group LFG for a r8+ of whatever class for half an hour.

So...

You've got 7 of the 12 people in the district in your group.

4 of the other 5 are probably AFK.

The last one probably isn't the rank or class you want.

And you wonder why HA is dying?

Did anyone else see that family guy episode where Meg dumps that loser and the newscaster says "apparently beggars can be choosers"? That's part of the cancer that is killing PvP! The game is dying, and you've got a bunch of beggars being choosers. And then they wonder in the land of sunshine, lollipops, and unicorns why things are a crisis.

You can't keep asking for your perfect little automatons or r8s anymore and expect PvP to survive! You've got a person new to GvG. You don't talk to him about why he's there or what he wants to do. You just assume some things and your only communications with him is telling him what class to play, what build to play, and what to do and then you get upset and throw your little hissyfits when someone who isn't you doesn't play like you tell him to. Then you get even more hissy when he tries to defend himself from the ganging up of your last group hissyfit.

And yet you wonder why it's hard training new people in PvP. Team building needs time and it's a two way street. Both sides bend. But when you've got a bunch of egomaniacs screaming "we're a top ranked guild so shut up and do what you're told" without knowing who someone is or why they are there, you can't complain when things go wrong or why it's so difficult to train new people.

You know what the cancer that is killing PvP is? Do you know why I'm glad it's dying?

IT'S YOU PEOPLE!!!

You gvgers looking for your shiny gold trim capes. You HAers looking for your shiny new rank.

You HAer elitists piss me off with your complete inability so see what's going on and being unable to change. Do you have any idea how long it takes the average person to get to r8 if he even cares to? Back in the day, it was only r3 then r6 to get into a group. Now it's r8. It takes a poopload of battles to get to r8. There aren't that many people in HA anymore. There aren't that many battles going on. Bloody empty districts an r8er do not make!

YOU CAN'T EXPECT THERE TO BE THAT MANY R8'S ABOUT ANYMORE!

Yet you still do.

The game is changing, you've got to change with it.

But you don't.

The transition from PvE to PvP is hard and in a dying game YOU PEOPLE are putting up every obstacle possible to new people, drive most of the interested ones off, and then you cry that GvG is in crisis or HA is dying. Until you all get together and have accumulated a pair of brain cells so you can realize that GW isn't the GW it used to be and figure out if you want your precious pvp to survive so you can get your stupid achievements, PvP is going to keep dying. You all are going to have to be a lot more accommodating and work really hard to change the community, the culture, and the reputation of pvp.

So until then good riddance I say.

You all deserve the dying pvp that you all are getting.

GW PvP is a PITA to get into, and in this dying stage most honest people who take one look at it are saying screw it and don't bother, and it's all because PvPers are keeping PvP on a death spiral.

As Cartman put it "Screw you guys, I'm going home."
And as Hyinemen put it "Well there's ^ your problem."

Faer · Oct 21, 2010, 07:25 AM // 07:25

I'm glad this is now in a forum where it will get the kind of responses it deserves. Have you ever actually asked anyone for serious help or do you just want to complain about the way the system works without putting forth an honest effort?

By the way, GvG is about being a team player, which that guy was not. And POLITICS ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES. How is that hard to understand? How can somebody even begin to think they relate to each other at all here? Bottom line, if you want to guest with a guild but you don't want to do the job you are given or listen to the directions of those above you on the food chain, don't even bother showing up. Unless you are an experienced player who has a good reason for going against the flow, you need to do what you are told or you will never learn and you will always be shit. If you want to dick around, don't do it in the goddamn mAT.

PvP doesn't need to die, PvE players need to stop trying to be HERO OF THE DAY unique snowflakes and learn how to play as part of a competitive team. GWAMM doesn't mean shit. You can't just do your own thing unless you actually know what you are supposed to be doing, which you have to listen to experienced players in order to learn.

I agree though, RA is shit. But I disagree that it needs to stay. It needs to go, so idiots can't run shit builds all day and think they are the hottest thing on the block, then bitch and moan when nobody wants their trash in any format that actually matters. The factions PvP areas are shit too, but nobody other than PvE players even remember that they exist as anything other than a place to troll morons anymore, because they never mattered. They are just PvE maps where you happen to be able to hit other idiots with your horrible spells. Nobody cares.

As for HA, rank discrimination only exists for people who don't have any friends. Here's how you, too, can get your very own TIGERCOPTER:

Ask people who look like they know what they are doing for advice.
Write it all down and then follow it.
Chat people up, be sociable, hang out, make friends.
Apply step 2 to step 5.
PLAY WITH YOUR NEW BUDDIES.
Do this regularly.

HOLY SHIT IT'S A TIGER LOOK AT THAT WOW HOW IMPRESSIVE FLASH THAT THING AND SPIN AROUND HOLY SHIT THAT'S GREAT.

Method designed by people with tigercopters, and verified by the rest of us with tigercopters because that's how we all did it with the exception of the zergway pug scrubs. It works, guaranteed, and isn't even all that hard to do. And the best part is that once you have your shiny new badass tigercopter you don't even have to worry about LOL RANK DISCRIMINATION anymore because hey guess what you have friends to play with. Still better is that if everybody just follows this simple six step plan to tigercoptering for justice, everybody will be able to tigercopter, and all this "waiting" people do in HA will be scared away by the roaring.

And since you brought up the IRC conversation which spawned all of this,

Quote:

<+Winterclaw> That's what sucks about PvP, you just want to have fun and you've got to deal with knowitalls, elitists, and jerks who only want to win

People play to win, not to get their shit kicked in. Deal with it.

Araiia · Oct 21, 2010, 07:25 AM // 07:25

puahahahah I like this thread.

Some things I agree, others I disagree, not going to get into that -- but it was a fun read with some good points.

Quote:

JQ - factions pvp, usually empty.

You're either Luxon or haven't played JQ for a while, but the Kurz side of JQ is usually packed. Trying to get in a match takes forever anyways though.

*lemming* · Oct 21, 2010, 07:27 AM // 07:27

I'm glad that you deliberately chose to not understand a shred of our discussion.

Crimson Robes · Oct 21, 2010, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Wow....

Go back to pve is about all i can think of.

That you dont enjoy PvP doesnt mean it should be removed from the game...

Good day to you sir!

End · Oct 21, 2010, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Is it bad that I read the whole thing? I feel kinda dirty...actually reading what people post.

Hells Fury · Oct 21, 2010, 07:48 AM // 07:48

I sense lot of force (anger) in this young one.

"...from the land of sunshine, lollipops, and unicorns."
pve?

Do you have any idea how long it takes the average person to get to r8 if he even cares to? Back in the day, it was only r3 then r6 to get into a group. Now it's r8. It takes a poopload of battles to get to r8.

God i laughed so hard at this one.

He speaks the truth (well for the most of the rant)

I would go on detail but i'm at my workplace comp atm.

Smarty · Oct 21, 2010, 07:51 AM // 07:51

/thumbsup for the longest rant I've ever read on these forums. As to the content, half agree half disagree. One thing's for sure, you're never going to get the PvP community to smell its own shit, no matter how hard you try and spell it out for them.

urania · Oct 21, 2010, 07:55 AM // 07:55

id prefer a "in a nutshell" version of the original post.
dont need to write a 5 page essay on why pvp sucks and why most of the arenas could might as well be removed - we already know why things are bad.
id disagree on CA being gimmicks. it can be fun sometimes.. as with ra, it depends on random factors.
oh and last but not least..are you for real?

Sierraa · Oct 21, 2010, 07:58 AM // 07:58

I really wanted to write out a long reply, but by the end of your post I came to the conclusion that you were unable to comprehend the conversation on IRC and that you're another PvEr who isn't willing to learn how PvP works. I'm sorry that not everyone is as retarded as the AI in PvE. You can't faceroll with a bunch of heroes and win.

In my opinion though, it's people like you that have killed PvP. No one wants to seem to take the time to learn anything or put the effort in to listen. No one seems to want to talk to people or make friends in hopes of getting groups. :| It makes me incredibly sad how many opportunities have presented themselves to PvErs but instead they decide to piss and moan about getting their face kicked in because they won't listen to someone who's trying to help them. Granted each side has their view but there have been numerous PvPers (myself included) who've gone out of their way to help new players get into PvP.

Quote:

Posting meaningless deranged psychobabble with no substantial merit or posts that do not contribute to the thread discussion will more than likely be deleted without notice.

I consider this thread meaningless derange psychobabble with no substantial merit.

You are entitled to your opinion though. I'm sorry I disagree.

Maver1ck87 · Oct 21, 2010, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I'm glad that you deliberately chose to not understand a shred of our discussion.

lol, just lol. In asnwer to the thread im going to make a video, once all my work is done, of what happens when u pug unranked players playing a variety of builds! ill post EVERY run on youtube, and try to put a link here... interesting experiment, I'll play my best and who knows, maybe we go to halls.....

Sierraa · Oct 21, 2010, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Darkblight

Bullcrap, the man deserves a reward for this masterpiece (like brand new shiny pony).

I'm sorry that I was capable of getting through all of the elitist people in HA and GvG and be what I consider semi-successful.

It's really not that hard, I promise. Even in this state of game I'm sure you could win a trim if you honestly tried and had a few favorable traits to help you. Watching Obs, Asking top-pvpers questions, researching your desired role, listening, and being able to correct your mistakes are all good places to start.

...but I guess it really is easier to just piss on threads like this and complain that every single pvper is out to protect their sacred section of the game and that we don't realize it's dying. People seem to think we don't want more people. Not sure why, but please. Most of us are more than willing to help you if you're willing to listen.

ruk1a · Oct 21, 2010, 08:24 AM // 08:24

first off i didn't bother to read your whole QQ post OP, pvp has been dead for a while this post is way late and useless thx for trying though.

Auron of Neon · Oct 21, 2010, 08:43 AM // 08:43

PvP isn't for casuals like you, Winterclaw. That whole "win the entire game with no effort" thing ends with PvE. If you want to beat other players, you have to want to beat other players. Nobody is going to resign for you. You aren't going to be able to pop consumables and have permanent IAS/IMS/immunity to crits/whatever other ridiculous bullshit cons do nowadays and steamroll the opponents.

You have to put in the effort. You have to not be bad at the game - it takes months of playing to get experienced enough with a bar or a profession to consider yourself "proficient," and months more to become "good." Guild Wars was founded on skill over grind, something the PvE crowd has never understood. If you aren't skilled, there is no alternative. There is no cons set. There is no paragon with Save Yourselves. There is no shadow form to make you invincible. There is simply you and your teammates being better at Guild Wars than the other team, and winning because of it.

The only option shitters have is gimmick play - they can beat other shitters with ranger spike or hex spam, but they'll still be rolled by the good players (which is how it should be). If you want to get a real PvP statue for your HoM and you despise the idea of not sucking, learn to love gimmicks.

Tripolityx · Oct 21, 2010, 09:01 AM // 09:01

First I was like "eh what?" but then I was like "eh what???"

Auron of Neon · Oct 21, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty

One thing's for sure, you're never going to get the PvP community to smell its own shit, no matter how hard you try and spell it out for them.

I'm not sure you're aware of this, but PvPers do PvP. There are as many things broken and malfunctioning in PvP as there are in PvE (that's a lot), and the playerbase has every bit as many elitists. We know - we have to deal with them too.

Joining a ranked HA group is exactly like joining a r10 ursan group or lb8 doa group. You either have the rank and get in instantly, or you are ridiculed, insulted and have your sexual preference questioned. Forming good groups for both PvP and PvE is done in relatively the same manner - you either go in with your guild or you maintain a solid friends list with good players, and you form with that. Joining pugs is always a gamble - even the ranked ones. Playing with people you know is the only way to ensure their skill.

You don't know how high-level PvP works because you haven't done it - but it works pretty much exactly like high-level PvE (it just has a much, much higher skill cap). Try joining a speed clear group without the right bar. Try joining a DoA group without the required level of lightbringer title. The results are the same as trying to GvG with a bad bar or trying to HA with no title.

The difference? Lightbringer only takes a couple of hours to max, and it doesn't take any skill at all. You ride worms around using wormskills and pewpewing trash mobs. I did it while mostly afk - I just came back and c-spaced occasionally, and let the heroes and henchies kill everything.

PvP doesn't work like that. You can't go afk and let the other 7 people on your team do your job for you. Getting the titles takes time and effort and a desire to improve.

Having experienced the frustration of trying to join pugs without being really qualified, I know how shitty it feels to be told I suck too much to play. It isn't fun. But here's where the multitude of whiny PvErs fail to grasp the whole picture - the other players are people, too. They don't find it fun to lose constantly because of a single retard who doesn't know how to run relics, bodyblock an opposing runner, or spike on time. While this doesn't excuse the poor behavior oftentimes exhibited by these players, the fact remains that you are holding them back and you get kicked from the group because of it. It isn't personal, it's just that they want to have a chance at victory.

Yes, Smarty, PvPers know the state of the game. We know that there are elitists, and we know our ways around them. We don't get insulted by one person and throw in the towel. If you find the content fun, do it - don't let elitists stand in your way. Form your own groups. Convince your guild to do HA for an hour or two on weekends. Play with your friends. You don't have to join a pug of strangers to PvP - but when you do, keep it mind that it's exactly like joining one in PvE.

Cantos · Oct 21, 2010, 09:33 AM // 09:33

I think you highlight a real issue wrt fragmentation of PvP modes. I resented the fact that the only new (described as a) PvP mode for Nightfall was something that really was essentially PvE. The PvEers get an entire new campaign and we get this? That's what I thought any way. Now I agree with you on your point that we have too many PvP modes.

All there should be is a casual mode that anyone can jump into and out of at any time with no committment, and a serious version of the same mode with structured teams. GW can't really fulfill this ideal. Hopefully they'll do a better job with GW2.

Artisan Archer · Oct 21, 2010, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

I'm not sure you're aware of this, but PvPers do PvP. There are as many things broken and malfunctioning in PvP as there are in PvE (that's a lot), and the playerbase has every bit as many elitists. We know - we have to deal with them too.

Joining a ranked HA group is exactly like joining a r10 ursan group or lb8 doa group. You either have the rank and get in instantly, or you are ridiculed, insulted and have your sexual preference questioned. Forming good groups for both PvP and PvE is done in relatively the same manner - you either go in with your guild or you maintain a solid friends list with good players, and you form with that. Joining pugs is always a gamble - even the ranked ones. Playing with people you know is the only way to ensure their skill.

You don't know how high-level PvP works because you haven't done it - but it works pretty much exactly like high-level PvE (it just has a much, much higher skill cap). Try joining a speed clear group without the right bar. Try joining a DoA group without the required level of lightbringer title. The results are the same as trying to GvG with a bad bar or trying to HA with no title.

The difference? Lightbringer only takes a couple of hours to max, and it doesn't take any skill at all. You ride worms around using wormskills and pewpewing trash mobs. I did it while mostly afk - I just came back and c-spaced occasionally, and let the heroes and henchies kill everything.

PvP doesn't work like that. You can't go afk and let the other 7 people on your team do your job for you. Getting the titles takes time and effort and a desire to improve.

Having experienced the frustration of trying to join pugs without being really qualified, I know how shitty it feels to be told I suck too much to play. It isn't fun. But here's where the multitude of whiny PvErs fail to grasp the whole picture - the other players are people, too. They don't find it fun to lose constantly because of a single retard who doesn't know how to run relics, bodyblock an opposing runner, or spike on time. While this doesn't excuse the poor behavior oftentimes exhibited by these players, the fact remains that you are holding them back and you get kicked from the group because of it. It isn't personal, it's just that they want to have a chance at victory.

Yes, Smarty, PvPers know the state of the game. We know that there are elitists, and we know our ways around them. We don't get insulted by one person and throw in the towel. If you find the content fun, do it - don't let elitists stand in your way. Form your own groups. Convince your guild to do HA for an hour or two on weekends. Play with your friends. You don't have to join a pug of strangers to PvP - but when you do, keep it mind that it's exactly like joining one in PvE.

Good post.

If you (OP) don't see the light now, all hope is lost for you.

drkn · Oct 21, 2010, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

JQ - factions pvp, usually empty.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but whenever i go for some JQ, i always get into a game after one or two countdowns. For at least the last two-three months, i've never had to wait longer, at random hours.

Quote:

FA - Factions PvP and as I don't have a guild so I don't care. Burn it. Should be remade as a pair of PvE challenge maps.

JQ - Factions PvP and as I don't have a guild so I don't care. Burn it. Should be remade as a pair of PvE challenge maps.

'I don't care, so burn it' approach. Yay!

E:

Quote:

You're either Luxon or haven't played JQ for a while, but the Kurz side of JQ is usually packed.

After maxing out Kurzick title, i play the Luxon side now. No problems with getting in.

Chalky · Oct 21, 2010, 10:14 AM // 10:14

I don't really understand the point the OP is making.

He's either saying "PvP is dying because the PvPers are elitists who are unhappy to settle for bad players just to get a game"

Or he's saying "Hahahaha, PvP is dying and you all deserve it because you're elitists who are unhappy to settle for bad players just to get a game".

Ok, fine, even if you tell me which of those you're saying, you completely miss the fact of what high level PvP is: it IS the elite. The whole concept behind any sort of competitive, ranked gameplay is that the best strive to be the best of the best. Only wanting to play with and against the best players isn't a symptom of a problem or a cause. It's the entire point of striving to be the best!